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In recent debates about the ethics of eating animals, some have advanced the claim that if people cause animals to exist and give them good lives in order to be able to eat them, then even if the animals are killed prematurely, the practice is permissible because it is good for the animals overall, as well as being good for the human beings who eat them. In this podcast with Tim Campbell PhD in practical philosophy and researcher at the Institute for Futures Studies, and Jeff McMahan, White's Professor of Moral Philosophy at Oxford University, and one of the worlds leading experts on the ethics of killing, they explore this claim and what (if anything) might be wrong with it, as well as the ethics of factory farming and hunting.